Ruth Devlin - Inspirational menopause educator

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Ruth Devlin – Educator and Advocate for Menopause Awareness – Episode 4

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Marcus Railton: Hello, I’m Marcus Railton, and welcome back to the second series of
the Scots Care podcast. Scots Care is the only charity dedicated to helping
disadvantaged Scots in London through a range of support, including financial grants,
advocacy, counselling and sheltered housing for older Scots, job coaching, social
events, befriending and support for children and families. The charity has been running
for 400 years to help break the cycle of poverty experienced by some Scots. In the new
series, I’ll be chatting with guests from all walks of life, from celebrities and authors,
athletes and actors, business entrepreneurs to academics, all with one thing in
common, scots heritage. And they enjoy a good blether.
Ruth Devlin is an educator who specialises in the menopause
Going to start today with a bit of a confession. The Scots Care podcast guest this week
is actually from Yorkshire, but she has lived north of the border for so many years, I
think she has earned honorary Scott status. You can hear it in her accent throughout
our chat. She is Ruth Devlin. She is an educator who specialises in the menopause.
Ruth has been on my radar for a while now, professionally and personally. I’ve wanted
to chat with her about the menopause for almost a year. Can you believe? In our talk,
we covered symptoms, physical and psychological. We chatted about work
environments and what they’re doing to improve and to implement menopause policies.
And we chat about a great book she wrote called, men, let’s talk menopause. We had a
bit of a stuttering start to the podcast. None of us could get the zoom to work the
technicalities of it beyond both of us. Finally, our combined knowledge led us to turn it
off and turn it back on again. And that seemed to eradicate the gremlins.
Scottish care expert Ruth Devlin joins us on scots care podcast
So here we go on the scots care podcast with Ruth Devlin.
Speaker B: Scott’s care.
Marcus Railton: Aha. Uh-huh. There you are. Sorry, I thought it was going to get the
better of us, Ruth, but yeah, it’s nice to see you.
Ruth Devlin: Nice to see you, too.
Marcus Railton: I don’t know what I was doing wrong there. I think, you know, I’m just.
My technical ability kind of begins at ends, begins, and ends at pressing, the zoom,
button to connect anything more complex than that. And I’m. I’m a bit done, I’m afraid.
Ruth Devlin: Well, no, I’m the same, so don’t worry about that.
Marcus Railton: That was a perfect storm of four tries before. But, you know, I love that I
can see you now and I can hear you perfectly. Who knows if we’re recording? But we’ll
have a.
Ruth Devlin: Well, it says it’s recording.
Marcus Railton: We’ll have a chat anyway. Now we’ve met a few times before,
professionally and personally, but for anyone, anyone listening who doesn’t know who
you are and what you do, could you explain? And then, Do you know what, I was just
about to use the word expertise and I know you don’t like the word expert, but can you
explain what you do?
Let’s talk menopause aims to provide accurate and evidence based
information
Ruth Devlin: Okay, nice to, thanks very much for inviting me on to start with, Marcus,
lovely to see you. what I do is basically educate. So I set up let’s talk menopause to be
able to provide, accurate and evidence based information to people right across all
sectors, which is what we do every week. and so it’s a balance, very much. We take a
balance view. There’s no bias in any particular direction, which means that people can
trust the information they’re getting and know that, we’re not going to push anything
down their throats, basically. So our main aim is that we get as much information out
there to people, people get as much information on board so that they can make their
own informed decisions and can hope that then hopefully helps some people to
motivate themselves to self manage their symptoms as well.
Marcus Railton: When I when I was looking at the website, let’s talk menopause, it says
right at the top, it says, you know, that the, the object is to raise awareness and provide
accurate information. Do you think there’s information out there or there has been
information out there that is less than accurate?
Ruth Devlin: Oh, you get, oh, you have to be very careful here, Marcus. You get a lot of
people doing what I do and you’re absolutely right, I would never call myself
menopause expert, just to go back to what you said at the start, because I just think
there are very, very few experts in this world. I would call myself, an educator who
specialises in education, on the menopause. Likewise, I’m a nurse as well. So I, ah,
think, do you know, there’s so many people educating you out there, I think you can get
your knickers in a twist if you try and, discuss this topic, really, which isn’t answering
your question at all, but they’re raising awareness is one thing, then provide it and that’s
brilliant. So we’ve got a certain cohort of celebrities who are going through this stage of
their lives at the moment, who are doing an absolutely fantastic job at raising
awareness. and that’s brilliant. It’s putting at, the forefront of everybody’s attention.
That’s wonderful. And then you get people who are just educators, but sometimes the
two don’t marry, but it is sitting on the fence, Marcus.
Marcus Railton: No, no, no. That’s a good. That’s a good kicking off point for us,
because you’re right, there is. There has been, I don’t know what the collective noun
would be for, you know, a kind of a glut of celebrities. But in the last couple of years, we
have seen a lot of people like Davina McCall and Lisa Snowden, but this is kind of the
first generation of celebrity women that have come out and kind of embraced the
subject and kind of broken the taboo and spoken about it. When I was thinking about
chatting to you last night, I was thinking about, when we’re at school, we learn about
periods and where we learn about pregnancy as we get a little bit older in school, but
we don’t really learn. There’s no formalised education about the menopause. So I
suspect, and I know, Ruth, I’m a man talking to a woman about, you know, a female
subject, but I suspect a lot of women come to this with a great deal of ignorance, a
great deal of, well, or no education about it, because the education has not been
formalised.
Ruth Devlin: Yeah, you’re quite right. And I think, you know, it doesn’t matter what
gender you are, the menopause is often not at, the forefront of people’s, brains when
they’re going through their teenage years and into their early twenties and thirties.
Cause it’s not hit them. And I think that’s the same with any topic, though. You know, if
you’re not interested in having children, you’re not going to research about pregnancy
and breastfeeding, and, you know, if you’re having problems with fertility levels, things
like that, that’s when you start researching, that topic. And I think that’s the thing about
the menopause is a lot of people associate the menopause with, often, say, little grey
haired grannies tottering around on ximophrens. And that couldn’t be further from the
truth because we’ve got a certain percentage of people who unfortunately fall into that
premature menopausal bracket. So there’s 1% roughly in the UK who are in that
bracket at the moment. So that’s people who are 40 years and under, which makes it
even more important to get education out there as early as possible. But for the vast
majority of people, a lot of people don’t want to know about it, don’t even think that they
need to know about it. but if you can just start to creep in little bits of. Little nuggets of
information from as early as possible, then I think that’s beneficial for everybody.
Are you seeing more awareness of menopause in the workplace
Marcus Railton: Now, maybe this is a strange question, but do you have any idea why
now it has, I mean, obviously down to people like yourself, but why is there more of an
awareness of it with, you know, Davina McCall is the person who’s really been
championing it from the celebrity side of it. Why do you think now rather than before?
Although that’s. I don’t want to criticise something that’s a good thing, but why now?
Ruth Devlin: I basically don’t know. I don’t know why celebrities haven’t done it before. I
have no idea. But I think, I think it is a really good thing. It just takes one person to take
up that lead and think, right, we just need to know about this. And you have certain
medics who have had, you know, a greater, appearance on social media friends. I think
social media has definitely helped. you know, there has been education on this topic for
well over 30 years and before and there’s lots of people who are really brilliant at the
educating, who just haven’t had the advantage of social media before in those years.
So I think, you know, I think that plays a huge role.
Marcus Railton: Are you seeing it more, being championed in the workplace? Because
I, I’m a sceptical person by nature and I, you know, I see a lot of stuff about mental
health and I see a lot of stuff about the climate and recycling and I see a lot of
greenwashing and mental health. I don’t know what. There must be a phrase for mental
health washing. There must be a phrase for that. And I wonder if there is a bit of
menopause washing as well because I read a survey recently from the Chartered
Institute of Personnel and Development and they were saying nine out of ten women
still feel they need more support in the workplace and that only 25% of workplaces
have a menopause policy.
Ruth Devlin: education within the workplace has massively improved since I first started
doing this back in 2012. It’s really, really improved. So many more organisations right
across the board, have got their policies on board, they’ve got the guidance notes on
board, they provide the education for their staff and it’s gradually increasing every year.
So I think, you know, for me, from my perspective, I’m working with, a wider, a more
diverse range of organisations. So from, you know, all the corporates through to the
councils, lots of councils I work with, work with NHS boards, you know, lots of loads of
different bespoke companies as well. and they have one goal, and that is to help
support their staff and, particularly retain invaluable, talented staff, and try and help
support them through this stage of their lives. So I’ve seen a massive improvement and
anything like this can always be improved. There’s always going to be those
organisations who. It’s not been on their agenda before, but then, you know, somebody
takes the lead on it and then they start getting themselves sorted out.
Scotts talks to Ruth Budd about what symptoms women may
experience during menopause
Marcus Railton: Can I ask you a basic question? And this is more for men that are
listening, because. And we’ll come on to. I mean, you wrote a great book. Was it last
year you wrote your book and that was aimed at men and how to look after partners
and how to understand what their partners are going through. But can you talk, talk to
me about what symptoms women, may experience physically and psychologically when
they start to enter the menopause? Or should we start before that and talk about
perimenopausal, that period in your life? Because that’s a big long period.
Ruth Devlin: It is. First of all, wrote my book in 2019. That’s a long time ago, isn’t it? I
know.
Marcus Railton: Well, do you know. Do you know what I always think about now, Ruth? I
always think about. Because of COVID I think time has just got blasted in my head. So I
always think, how long ago was that? And then I double it. And I think that’s how I get it.
That’s how I got a realistic figure on it.
Ruth Devlin: Hello. Completely agree. It’s all a blur since COVID isn’t it? yeah, there are
numerous symptoms, as we know, and I think a lot of people get a little hazy about the
perimenopausal stage and what menopause actually is. Menopause is this over
umbrella term. So you can only be classed as being fully menopausal when you’ve had
a twelve consecutive months of no bleeding after that last menstrual period. And before
that, you’re in the perimenopausal stage. So when your oestrogen levels start to decline
and fluctuate, you start going into that perimenopausal stage, and that’s the most
symptomatic stage prior to becoming menopausal. So that’s when you experience the
vast majority of those symptoms. And symptoms can creep in for people without them
realising or attributing to how they’re feeling, to being in the menopause. So symptoms,
you know, like some of the psychological, emotional ones, like low mood swings,
irritability, raised levels of anger and rage, things like that can creep in and you start to
put these symptoms down to other things, other stresses in your lives, like maybe
you’ve got teenage children, you may be looking after older parents, you’re still working
within the workplace and you know, you’ve got numerous things that you, numerous
balls that you’re juggling and it can be a stressful time of life and then you get the
menopause thrown into the balance as well. So it can become a little bit confusing for
people as to why they’re feeling like this. And it’s only when other symptoms start to
creep in, like, you know, maybe changes to their menstrual cycles, maybe joint aches,
maybe they’re getting bloating, problems with sleep. All these sorts of things start
creeping in, that they start thinking, oh, hang on a minute then m let’s put two and two
together. Maybe it’s not just an, irritable and I’m a crabby person, maybe I have. There
is another reason why I’m experiencing these symptoms and I think I. For some people
that can almost be a relief to realise that because they, you know, it’s not your fault that
you’re going through the menopause. And I think, you know, a lot of people have to take
that on board. You know, you don’t choose to go through the menopause, you don’t
choose to have your oestrogen levels declining and fluctuating all over the place and it
can be a very confusing and distressing time for a lot of people if they’re experiencing a
lot of different symptoms. And that’s one of the main things to point out is that
everybody does have their own individual experience, the menopause. Some people
experience huge amount of symptoms and have a horrendous time with debilitating
symptoms. Other people sail through this period of their lives.
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Understanding the symptoms of menopause is key to coping with
symptoms
Marcus Railton: When people come to you, when you come to your talks or to your
corporate. I was going to call them gigs, not really gigs, your corporate seminars, you
know, do you find there is a moment of realisation from people that kind of the penny
drops and goes oh, this is. This is what’s happening to me, rather than, as you say, just
thinking the slightly maybe losing the plot.
Ruth Devlin: Oh, no, definitely, yes. the penny definitely drops for a lot of people and it’s.
You almost feel you’re seeing a sense of relief that passed across, passes across
people’s faces when they realise they’re not going mad. And a lot of other people within
the room, if you’re doing a face to face one or if you’re on a call, you know, a lot of
people realising that most people on that call are experiencing some of the same, same
symptoms. So it can be a former relief for a lot of people, definitely. But the more
education get on board, the more you understand it and the more you understand why
you’re experiencing the symptoms. That’s key. And then understanding how you can
cope with those symptoms to a certain degree for yourself. And then if you need to get
medication, and further support on board, that is also available. But there’s lots you can
do yourselves, which is key to helping, you know, giving you that sense of control back,
which I think, for a lot of people is lacking. And you can feel all at sea. Lots of people
don’t like the way their body’s behaving. They don’t feel like they’re living in the same
body for a lot of people. And it can be a really distressing.
Marcus Railton: Time, which I totally understand. I think. I think generally, as a human
being, once you start to get past 40 and you start to question your own mortality and
your own validity and what your place is and you might have had your kids and your
kids are starting to get a bit older and, you know, from a male point of view, I went
through. I have been through, I’m in my fifties now and I went through all of these
things, questioning my place and thinking, you know, am I. Am I ever going to work
again? Am I going to do a job that means something to me? So to be going through
that and then adding in, you know, physical and other psychological menopause related
symptoms, I think, is quite terrifying.
Ruth Devlin: Well, it. Yes, it can be. I wouldn’t use the word terrifying, I think. Can I just
take a change, a slant on this minute? Because I think the. I think I.
You have to see the positive sides of going through the menopause
One problem with the topic of the menopause is there’s so much doom and gloom and
negativity that surrounds the menopause. Yes, it can be extraordinarily debilitating for a
lot of people, but you have to see the positive sides of going through the menopause
and a lot of people will be shouting at your podcast now going, what does she mean?
What is there positive about going through the menopause? How can you get anything
positive about that? But you have to stop the whole doom and gloom and saying there’s
loads of stigmas attached and it’s a, taboo topic. And yes, within the workplace, certain
organisations do need to get their act together, but there’s a huge amount of
organisations who already have done brilliant work. But for each individual person, I’ll
go back to that, get your information on board, start being proactive about your
symptoms and how you cope with them and then you can start to see the positivity
moving forward because there are positive to going through the menopause for a lot of
people. You actually start to get to understand how your body works and, you know,
how your body’s behaving. You start to really look after your body, you start to feed your
body what it needs. So from a nutritional perspective, you start to be getting healthier.
You maybe start to look at alcohol content, your caffeine content. So moving forward
into those post menopausal years, you’re going to have a better quality of life. So
actually, if you look at it in a different way, it can be a positive time to have a really good
look at your body, see what it needs, nourish it with what it needs. That’s going to help
all you coping with the symptoms and the outcome is that in the post menopausal
years, you’re in a better place.
Marcus Railton: I think your style is very kind of straight talking but not top down. And I
think you first came onto my radar because my wife Becky went to one of your talks
and, you know, so. And she is, she’s perimenopausal and she is a professional person
and for a long time she thought she was going to lose her mind. You know, she, she
would suffer from brain fog, especially at work, and this affected her confidence and,
you know, so this is obviously on ongoing because, as you’ve kind of touched on, but a
perimenopausal, that period, you can still be conceiving kids during that time and you’re
heading towards the menopause, which is confusing. And for Becky and I, we’ve got a
teenager and you know what teenagers are like. So you’re dealing with the mood
swings of a teenager while you’re perimenopausal. And I think this was this kind of
perfect storm that my wife was going through before you kind of came on to the radar
and she went to one of your talks and it was just as you present things, ah, you’re funny
and blunt and uplifting. And she came back and she went, oh, you’ve got to meet this
woman, Ruth Devlin. She’s wonderful. She’s changed so much and she was much
more positive. And so I wonder, how much time do you get to spend out, on the road
talking to real people?
Ruth Devlin: Oh, not enough. That’s very kind comments and it was lovely to meet you,
because I remember that. But, yeah, I don’t get enough time face to face. You know,
since COVID every organisation just about will want their talks online, which you can
understand because they’ve got. It’s a far greater reach, but it’s fantastic to go out, face
to face and, you know, we did a talk at, ah, the royal infirmary in Edinburgh last, last
week and. Brilliant to get out and about and meet people and then you can really read
people’s body language more and, you know, interact just that little bit more. But, No,
you are right, I’m straight talking. I do come from Yorkshire, so I’m probably quite blunt.
But, you know, if I’m doing men only talks, you know, sometimes you’ll get people
saying, well, which are brilliant, by the way, so if you’re in an organisation, you’re
listening. The way to get through to men and getting men on talks is provide men only
talks because they’re really interactive and you usually find that most people will hardly
shut up. I can hardly get a word in edgeways because it’s their one opportunity to ask
all the questions they’re scared to ask. so it’s, do you know, a lot of people will say, oh,
gosh, maybe don’t talk about this and this and this and in the men only talks. No, men
need everything as well. They need to know why, you know, you’ve got genital urinary
symptoms, all the symptoms with the vagina and the vulva and the urinary system,
because those are the symptoms that are going to impact on relationships and, you
know, those obviously, those are incredibly important. So, you know, men get to know
as much as the women on talks, all genders do.
Marcus says there needs to be more consistent education about
menopausal symptoms
Marcus Railton: Let me ask you, this is a kind of blunt question, then. Do you think for
real change to be affected? Because last year, and here’s another survey, it’s a simply
health survey, it said three and a half million women have considered quitting their job
last year because of menopause symptoms. And I wonder, if you put it bluntly, are
people like you underfunded? Do we actually need more legislation and more funding
put into this to allow you to tour more and educate more?
Ruth Devlin: Oh, definitely, Marcus. Thank you. Absolutely, definitely.
Marcus Railton: Yes.
Ruth Devlin: Somebody provide me with a lovely job. That’d be wonderful. Instead of
having to do it myself. That would be heaven. No, joking apart, absolutely. There needs
to be more. I think, for me, there needs to be more consistent education, more
accessible education right across the board. But it’s the consistency which is important
and making it comprehensive. So you’re not just focusing on one thing like HRT or, you
know, I don’t know, herbs or something like that. You’re focusing on what people can do
for themselves. You’re giving them the basic education as to why the symptoms are
happening in the first place. That’s important so people understand and then giving
them all the different options that they, you know, they can utilise to help themselves, on
an individual basis, and then explain about the medication and when to go for that. And
a lot of people are so confused about so many different things because the problem as
well, from a Google perspective, is, yeah, absolutely wonderful. We’ve got social media,
but it’s so confusing because there’s so many educators out there, there’s so many
menopausal sites, and it’s a minefield, you know, you think, right, which sites do I look
at? Which sites do I believe? Who do I trust? And it’s usually the people who have the
biggest marketing behind them, unfortunately.
Marcus Railton: Well, this is the problem with anything on the Internet, and I think, I’m
not trying to be flippant, but it’s once you start going down that Google rabbit hole,
everything either ends up in cancer or Adolf Hitler. And that’s what terrifies me, because
as soon as you go, oh, do you know what? I’ve got a pain here and an ache there. Do
not google it, I think that’s absolutely disastrous.
Ruth Devlin: But on that note, I, you know, you can’t. You can’t go wrong with looking at
the women’s health concern website. That’s the patient arm, the British Menopause
society, you’ve got. They don’t pay me to advertise, by the way. You’ve got fantastic fact
sheets on there, which are written by people specialising in this area. It’s evidence
based, it’s accurate. You know, you’ve not just got one person writing those fact sheets,
you’ve got a team of people, and that’s the important thing. One person can’t do
something on their own. You need to have a team of people behind your fact sheets,
which is really important. And that, and you know, so I would focus on, websites like
that. If you’re a medic who’s listening, go to the British Menopause society website.
Scroll down to tools for clinicians. You’ve got fantastic sheets on there which are
available for anybody to download. if you’re worried about your prescribing your, you
know, just go onto those sheets and find out the basic facts. It’s all there, you just need
to know where to find it. If you’re wanting, help with premature menopause, then look
on the Daisy network website. That’s a fantastic supportive charity. If you’re worried by
one of your five gynecounces, go on to the Eve appeal website. That’s another fantastic
charity. They do enormous amounts of work, but it’s just putting these things in front of
people so that people could go, oh brilliant, thanks, that’s fantastic. I’ll go and have a
look at that. If you’ve got a problem with your pelvic floor, go on to the squeezy app,
download that. I’m not paid by any of these.
Marcus Railton: People to advertise links to these, all of these we do, yeah. Podcast
notes underneath where you’re listening to right now.
Speaker B: Scots care, the charity helping to break the cycle of poverty some Scots
find in London.
Marcus Railton: Can I ask you something about your website? The let’s talk menopause
website, it’s something you say quite high up in the website is not to write off HRT too
quickly. Can you talk to me about that?
Ruth Devlin: Yeah. A lot of people are still scared of HRT, even with all the education
that goes on about it. Again, go to the women’s health concern website, the brilliant fact
sheets on it there. And that’s because of the two reports that came out in, I think it was
2000, 220 twelve with lots of the facts are now being discredited on those. So it’s
getting people to reverse their opinion and they cause the media caused so much
damage in that perspective and I think, you know, they have to be so careful, the
media, I’m not criticising anybody or any individual at all, but you have to be so careful
when you post something on the newspaper or in a magazine to know that you’re not
scaremongering and just doing it for sensational purposes because it doesn’t help
anybody. And the damage that it can cause can be just astounding to be quite honest,
you’ve got risks with any medication that you take. You know, if you took out the leaflet
that’s in your paracetamol packet, you think, crikey, I’m not going to look at, I’m not
going to take that. You know, if you take out the leaflet which is in your contraceptive
pillow packet, you think it’s, you know, it’s similar risks that are stated for HRT. But if
you, as, if I’m sitting chatting to somebody and, chatting to a group of people in a talk, if
you say, right, put your hand up, if you’ve had the contraceptive pill, majority of people
will put their hands up, but there’s less risk because of the age factor. Obviously, your
risk increases with age, obviously. but I do, you know, you have to take a measured
approach and, HRT is the most valid treatment option for anybody going through the
menopause. If you’re able to take hormones, that is, and if you medically, it’s medically
right for you to be able to take that, you know, you obviously have to go for medical
assessment. You obviously somebody has to see somebody who, knows your full
medical history and can assess you, but it is the most valid option for, menopausal
symptoms. And there are lots of different ways you can have it. You can have it orally,
you can have it through the skin transdermally. Lots of different options, but you just
need to find a good prescriber and somebody who knows what they’re talking about.
You have to get individualised care. Is there a way to tailor the
amount of medication
Marcus Railton: A question that came up in our household was that this kind of like, you
know, it’s either gel or patches that was offered to my wife and I think one of Becky’s
worry was, how does one patch fit all, if you know what I mean? Because for you, or so
and so down the road, it might work quite well, but for somebody else, it might not work
quite well. Is there a way to tailor the amount of medication that’s getting into your body?
Ruth Devlin: That’s a good question. That’s why there are all these different options and
that’s why, you have to understand how your body works and not to be frightened to go
back. Person who’s prescribing and saying, look, this really isn’t working, are there any
other options? Because everybody’s going to absorb medication at different rates and
different amounts. So if you’ve got, maybe you’ve got a patch prescribed and maybe it’s
just not sticking on your skin adequately enough, maybe it doesn’t suit your skin type.
So then try the gel. But you’ve got to think of. Right, okay, what’s better for me? Some
people hate the gelatinous, hate the gel, hate the patches and are much better with the
oral, taking tablets, you just have to find one which suits you, it suits your physiology
and works for you and that’s the most important thing. So getting individualised care is
key. There’s no blanket. Right. This is the best option for all of you. You have to get
individualised care.
Your book on the menopause is available on Amazon
Marcus Railton: I want to go back to your book, actually. Ah, and it’s called men. Let’s
talk about menopause. It is available on Amazon. I’ve got a copy and I’ve read it and it’s
great. But what inspired you to write that? Ah, were you thinking that they’re just, you
know, men were the kind of thin end of the wedge. They just didn’t know enough. And
are you getting good results from it? Are mostly women buying it for their men or do you
find men are buying it as well?
Ruth Devlin: Do you know, I don’t know who buys it, whether it’s men buy women. Isn’t
that dreadful? Not on a survey. But what, what stimulated me to buy, to read it, to write
it in the first place was literally the basic, most basic thing is that anybody that I gave
talks to, any group of people I gave talk to, when I started out, all the people on the
talks were predominantly female, obviously, and without fail, every single talk,
somebody would say, I wish my partner, I wish my husband, I wish my male colleagues
could have this information as well. And so I thought, right, write a really short guide.
And that’s what it is, it’s a guide. It’s not meant to be a detailed, in depth, analogy of the
menopause. It’s meant to be a good, broad, comprehensive overview of the
menopause just to give you the basic facts to help you understand what potentially your
partner or your wife or your colleague could be going through. And it’s meant to be easy
to read, which hopefully it is. And I made it purposely short because low attention span
on something like the topic of the menopause, probably for the vast amount of people
anyway, regardless of what gender. But it means you can dip in and out and it’s got, and
you know, I put some useful links in at the end. And also one of the most important
things at the end is you’ve got a symptom checker. So symptom checker is really good
to, for anybody to do keeping diaries of your symptoms, which sounds really nerdy for a
lot of people, you get rolling eyes on talks. I’m not going to keep a food diary or
menopause or a menstrual diary, but you start to get to understand how your body’s
working and, so they’re really good to do, but also a symptom checker for people to go,
oh, gosh, yeah, I actually have got that. Oh, hang on a minute. Yes, I’m experiencing
that and maybe that’s not what I thought it was, but maybe it is a menopause. So just
something simple like that can really start to focus people on their symptoms a little bit
more.
Do you think we’re in a good place moving forward on menopause
awareness
Marcus Railton: Do you think we’re in a good place moving forward, you know,
educationally and, awareness wise? I mean, it feels to me that we are going in the right
direction. You know, when I think about what my father probably knew about
menopause, it was probably nothing at all. Less than nothing, you know, and I don’t
think it was probably even a man’s place to know about these things back then. But it
does seem to be within my peer group, something that is around and, you know, and
we talk about it and we’re trying to do the best men can to get our heads around it
because, you know, we can be a bit thoughtless sometimes, can’t we?
Ruth Devlin: Well, I think. I think it’s definitely massively improved, but I think that’s
down to lots of different things, I think, you know, you do have, you do have the celebrity
elements, so you’ve got, and you’ve got, which is, has been really beneficial to get us at
the forefront of people’s minds, but also just social media in general. The age that we’re
living in, everything’s just more accessible and more spoken about. And I know that my
own children, who are all teenagers, will, well, late twenties, do you know the way that
they talk about things? They’re much more open about all sorts of different things,
which we didn’t talk about when I was, when I was younger. And, I’m from Yorkshire, so
I talked about anything, basically. So they talk about an awful lot more. So I think it’s just
the era that we live in, a lot of it, and education is more accessible. But I think, you
know, within the workplace, the best results from a male perspective, from if, you’re
going to use that agenda for, getting people to access this sort of information, if you’ve
got a CEO or if you’ve got senior management, you’ve got somebody in senior
management, or the CEO who’s. Who’s male, who’s, who’s got a partner or colleague
who’s experienced the menopause and had. And had a poor experience, they’re more
likely to come on board and say, right, you know, we’re going to. We’re going to do a
programme on this. And that really does help.
Marcus Railton: That’s brilliant, Ruth, thank you for joining me today. It’s been, you
know, educational and interesting as it always is, talking to you, you know, and I think
you’re shedding a light that needs to be shared in places. I, You know, this figure still
kind of baffled me, you know, when we’re talking about nearly 4 million people wanting
to leave work and 25% of, companies only having a menopause policy. You know, I. I
hope it gets better, but I think people like you are certainly leading the vanguard. And
thank you for talking us today.
Ruth Devlin: Well, very kind words. Thank you very much and thanks for having me on.
It’s always a pleasure to talk to you, Marcus.
Marcus Railton: Speak to you soon.
Ruth Devlin: Likewise.
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